The FBI and Secret Service testified before a joint Senate hearing that carried a much calmer atmosphere compared to a similar hearing held last week by the House on the assassination attempt of former President Donald Trump, with both agencies’ leaders conceding that it was a “failure on multiple levels.”
Despite a few heated exchanges with Sens. Josh Hawley (R-MO) and Ted Cruz (R-TX), the exchange of information between Acting Secret Service Director Ronald Rowe and FBI Deputy Director Paul Abbate and senators were conversational and filled with details, a contrast to the lackluster testimony given by former Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle before the House Oversight Committee.
A clear detail coming out of the hearing on Tuesday was a lack of communication between local and federal law enforcement agencies that allowed Thomas Matthew Crooks, 20, to access a nearby building with an AR-15 rifle and fire shots at the former president and rally attendees.
Secret Service personnel were not aware of shooter until gunshots were heard
Rowe said on Tuesday that neither the Secret Service counter-sniper teams nor members of Trump’s security detail had “any knowledge” that there was a shooter with a gun on the roof.
“It is my understanding those personnel were not aware the assailant had a firearm until they heard gunshots,” Rowe said.
Abbate said that approximately 25 minutes prior to the shooting, the U.S. Secret Service command post was “notified of a suspicious person.”
Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT) took issue with the fact that there were several minutes during which Trump could have been removed from the stage or prevented from going on. Rowe explained that the Secret Service was only aware of a suspicious person and the presence of a gun was not communicated to them, so there was not an immediate threat relayed to them that would have prevented the former president from taking the stage.
Rowe added that the Secret Service had no communication “beyond suspicious person” and there were other suspicious people reports during the duration of the rally.
Abbate said that at 6:11:03 p.m., local law enforcement had spotted Crooks with a gun. Rowe said that information did not make it over to the Secret Service.
Rowe said he regretted that information was not passed from the Secret Service to Congress and the public sooner. The lack of detail was the main reason that Cheatle’s testimony before the House Oversight Committee was deemed “unacceptable” and a failure to hold the agency accountable.
Both agencies are still investigating how Crooks was able to access the roof with an AR-15. FBI footage found that Crooks had a backpack where they believe he kept the firearm, but Abbate could not say whether the rifle had been disassembled or not.
Rowe said he is also aware that two local Pennsylvania counter-snipers were posted in a nearby building that would have assumingly given them a clear shot of Crooks.
“There were two-man kind of sniper teams from the locals that were in that AGR building,” Rowe said, adding that he could not speak to reports that they “deserted” their post.
However, the acting director said, “It seems to me, that if even one of them left, there should have been remaining — some additional eyes left in that building.”
Rowe said he would submit in writing once he learned the nature of the counter-snipers leaving their post.
Hawley and Rowe argue over firings now or later
Sens. Josh Hawley (R-MO) blasted Rowe for the fact that no one had been fired or relieved of duty due to the security failures and lack of coverage of the building where Crooks shot at the crowd.
Hawley said he had a problem with the idea that some Secret Service agents, including those who were in charge of placing personnel on buildings and sending Trump onto the stage to begin the rally, were still holding a job.
“Isn’t the fact that a former president was shot, that a good American is dead, that other Americans were critically wounded, isn’t that enough mission failure for you to say that the person who decided that that building should not be in a security perimeter probably ought to be stepped down?” Hawley said.
“My question is, why don’t you relieve everybody of duty who made bad judgment?” Hawley added.
Rowe explained that he did not want to “zero in” and fire individual people without a full investigation taking place, which Hawley disagreed with.
“What more do you need to investigate to know that they were critical enough failures that some individuals ought to be held accountable?” Hawley said heatedly. “I mean, what more do you need to know?”
“You’re asking me, Senator, to completely make a rush to judgment about somebody failing,” Rowe responded. “I acknowledge this was a failure…I will tell you that I will not rush to judgment, that people will be held accountable, and I will do so with integrity and not rush to judgment and put people unfairly persecuted —”
“Unfairly persecuted? We have people that are dead,” Hawley interrupted.
Other senators more calmly suggested that personnel needed to be let go in response to the shooting.
“Somebody’s gotta be fired,” Senate Judiciary Committee ranking member Lindsey Graham (R-SC) said. “Nothing’s going to change until someone loses their job.”
Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-CT) agreed with Graham later in the hearing, arguing people need to lose their jobs “to send a message that this massive intelligence and surveillance failure, as well as the enforcement failure, cries out for accountability.”
Rowe explains changes to Secret Service protocol
A number of recommendations and changes have already been suggested or made in the 17 days since the shooting, Rowe said.
Rowe said the Secret Service is committed to changing their radio communication systems so that they can be connected to both local and federal law enforcement. The task typically does not occur for one-day events, he said, as takes several days to complete due to technical issues that make it hard to connect federal systems with local frequencies.
He also said the agency will be connecting with the Homeland Security Department to obtain more connectivity resources so the agents do not need to rely on public domains, another aspect that Rowe said led to communication issues.
Rowe told the senators that typically, radio transmissions between agents are not recorded outside of Washington, D.C., and stops for the sitting president and vice president. He said he would make sure all communications are recorded from here out after some senators asked whether the discussions between law enforcement officers and agents regarding Crooks were preserved.
When working with local law enforcement, he said both federal and local teams need to have their sniper teams working and standing by for any threats. Rowe said multiple times that, while offering respect to the work of local police, there was a “failure of imagination” that the local law enforcement had handled security thoroughly at the Butler rally.
Rowe also said that a laser range finder, which Crooks had in his possession when officials marked him as a suspicious person, would be added to the list of prohibited items moving forward.
When speaking with Sen. Marsha Blackburn (R-TN) about disgruntled counter-snipers and other agents, Rowe said he is “committed to being a change agent” regarding the culture of the Secret Service, as well.
Republicans take issue with pushback on requests to interview Secret Service agents
Graham, along with Sen. Ron Johnson (R-OH), pressed Rowe on why requests for the committee to interview 13 Secret Service agents have gone unfulfilled.
Rowe said the 13 individuals are in the process of, if not already, interviewing with the FBI regarding the events of the assassination attempt. Johnson asked for transcribed interviews.
“Because memories are short, they can be influenced by events,” Johnson said. “We need these transcribed interviews as soon as possible.”
Homeland Security Committee Chairman Gary Peters (D-MI) asked Rowe to commit to having the agents available for interviews in a manner of days, to which the acting director agreed.
“We now need to speak with Secret Service agents directly, who are directly involved, and I would say that you need to make them available as soon as possible,” Peters said. “Those interviews can’t start weeks from now or months from now. Time is of the essence, when memories are fresh and you can get the information that is most important to us.”
Secret Service dismisses claim that additional security for Trump was denied
Many Republican senators focused on whether security details and other provisions were denied to Trump, a claim that several news outlets have reported on but the Secret Service has repeatedly said is false.
Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) asked Rowe whether the Secret Service lied in their statement.
“If you’re talking about Butler, Pennsylvania, all assets requested were approved,” Rowe said.”If you’re talking about the media reporting of assets requested, there were times when assets were unavailable and not able to be filled, and those gaps were staffed with state and local law enforcement tactical assets.”
Rowe also denied that security detail was transferred from Trump to first lady Jill Biden on the day of the assassination attempt. Cruz and Rowe got into a heated exchange when Rowe could not provide the number of agents assigned to Trump compared to those assigned to President Joe Biden and Jill Biden. Rowe attempted to tell Cruz that the numbers are different for a sitting administration but got cut off by Cruz.
“Stop interrupting me,” Cruz said. “You are refusing to answer clear and direct questions. I am asking the relative difference in the number of agents between those assigned to Donald Trump and those assigned to Joe Biden.”
“Senator, I will get you that number so you can see it with your own eyes,” Rowe responded.
Rowe confirmed to Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC) that he would get a chronology of requests made and whether they were accepted or denied.
FBI says shooter flip-flopped on political views on social media
Abbate said a social media account that the agency believes may belong to Crooks reflected “antisemitic and anti-immigration themes.” This was a new piece of information revealed at the beginning of the hearing, and Abbate said he did not want to elaborate as the FBI continues its investigation.
The FBI deputy director told senators that over 700 comments were posted from an account the agency believes belonged to Crooks in the “2019-2020 timeframe.”
“Some of these comments, if ultimately attributable to the shooter, appear to reflect antisemitic and anti-immigration themes to espouse political violence and are described as extreme in nature,” Abbate said.
Blackburn later pointed to a Gab account believed to belong to Crooks in 2021 that portrayed “pro-immigration, pro-lockdown, leftist views.”
“We’re still working to certify and verify that that’s his account also, but it does have differing points of view, it would appear,” Abbate said.
Senate atmosphere less theatric compared to House hearing last week
The Senate joint hearing took place with less theatrics and expletives that were present at the House hearing last week, despite the outbursts from Hawley and Cruz. Many senators on both sides of the aisle thanked Abbate and Rowe for their service and cooperation and asked calm questions without interruption.
The individual showing the most emotion during the hearing was Rowe.
Rowe became frustrated at his own agency multiple times during the hearing while answering questions from both Republicans and Democrats. He referenced several photos of the building that Crooks was able to access without law enforcement knowledge.
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“This is from the AGR building. This point of view is the point of view where the countersniper team locally was posted. The gold arrow indicates where the shooter fired from, looking left,” Rowe said with clear emotion in his voice. “Why was the assailant not seen?”
Rowe said he visited the building where Crooks shot at Trump and rally attendees, saying he “cannot defend why that roof was not better secured.”
